Not me saying it, although I do wonder at the naivety of those who think England can import, say, a large number of Somalians without taking on some of the characteristics of Somalia.
'Tis the BBC.
Young immigrants from violent and war-torn countries are fuelling mayhem and murder on London's streets, according to a new report. Research from Scotland Yard says increasing numbers of youths with significant post-traumatic stress are having a negative impact in the city.
And after they've been at their work other people have post-traumatic stress - or worse.
There are currently 171 street gangs operating in London says the report. Some 43% of gangs are estimated to have more than 20 members, while 18% have more than 50 members. Although 90% of gang participants are male, there are believed to be three female gangs operating in London, and women are often used "to mind weapons" for brothers and partners. The document states that half of gangs identified by police intelligence are based in the African-Caribbean community.
Hmm. "The African-Caribbean community". Do I detect a change of terminology ? Is this designed to include Africans as well as those whose immediate antecedents are Caribbean ?
Historically most of the bad gangstas have come from down Jamaica way while the more recent African immigrants were, like most first-generation migrants, pretty law-abiding. Contrast Damilola Taylor and his killers. But since we started importing young men from war zones there's been a change. Somali gangs now feature in the urban bestiary. People like Robert Malasi and Shukri Bilal are starting to clog up our jails with their useless carcases and our mortuaries with their victims.
I may be wrong - "African-Caribbean" may just be a synonym for "Afro-Caribbean". It's hard to keep up. More on London gangs here.
Tuesday, May 01, 2007
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African-Caribbeans - good spot, Laban. Yes, it's intentional. More camouflaged lies.
Britain is primitive, vulgar and lawless. It is clogged with people who themselves, and whose ancestors for a hundred generations, have not contributed to our country. Yet they are now in it, stealing everything our ancestors bequeathed to us.
I think we need a putsch. I could go for a right-wing military take-over. If the EU didn't like it, we could bomb Brussels. How did Britain allow itself to descend so far that its streets are overrun with violent people from very primitive societies - most of whom adhere to a primitive, voodoo religion? The somalis are also keen practitioners of female genital mutilation. They do not have the permission of the owners of Britain to be here.
Dave will never kick them out. Our country is shattered, in fragments.
Why do I think the BNP will be selecting extra candidates at breakneck speed?
My prediction, a big BNP presence in town councils by this weekend.
Be fair, Verity. Britain would still be primitive, vulgar and lawless if all recent immigrants left on the weekend. After all, some of the the whitest places in Britain, like Easterhouse in Glasgow are among the most dangerous.
I don't know, Laban. Of course, there were always pockets of lawless people, but the normal streets were safe. Today, they're not.
Laban wrote “I do wonder at the naivety of those who think England can import, say, a large number of Somalians without taking on some of the characteristics of Somalia.” To what extent do you apportion these “characteristics of Somalia” to Nature or Nurture and which characteristics did you have in mind?
Verity wrote “More camouflaged lies.” I would say only to the extent that Joe Soap would not differentiate between Afro and African. Having encountered ditch-diggers that raise such nuances in conversation, I would not say it is camouflaged and it is clearly not a lie.
Verity wrote “Britain is primitive” It is not.
Verity wrote “Britain is vulgar” Isn’t vulgarity the fashion of the day in the USA as well?
Verity wrote “Britain is lawless”. Increasingly so. However we have yet to engage in the sectarian murder which is now reportedly commonplace in LA.
Verity wrote “Britain ... is clogged with people who themselves, and whose ancestors for a hundred generations, have not contributed to our country. Yet they are now in it, stealing everything our ancestors bequeathed to us.” This reminds me of a recent article at vdare.com: http://www.vdare.com/burns/0704030_citizenship.htm entitled “Immigration Policy Squanders The Value of Citizenship”, worth a look, I would suggest.
Verity wrote “I think we need a putsch ... a right-wing military take-over.” I have not knowingly seen even one non-egalitarian Army/Navy/Air Force big wig in the MSM, never mind one intent on replacing The Establishment Party I with The Establishment Party II.
“ we could bomb Brussels.” Brussels is" bombing". For example: http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2062, entitled “Population Replacement in the Capital of Europe"
Verity wrote “ How did Britain allow itself to descend so far that its streets are overrun with violent people from very primitive societies". The Establishment Party.
Verity wrote “They do not have the permission of the owners of Britain to be here.“ The general public were never asked and the ruling class did not embrace the results which they insisted the general public should celebrate.
Verity wrote “Dave will never kick them out.” There are many Daves in Europe, not all as blind as Phoney Blair.
Verity wrote “Why do I think the BNP will be selecting extra candidates at breakneck speed?” nominations closed several days ago.
Verity wrote “My prediction, a big BNP presence in town councils by this weekend.” My prediction? Balkans. Why? Listen to this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/pip/l7p2v/ “Winifred Robinson investigates what more can be done to tackle the increasing violence seen on the streets of Peckham [inner-city London]. She asks why youngsters get involved in gang culture and what happens to them as they grow older and take more risks.”
'African-Caribbean' has become the preferred term to describe all persons of black Caribbean descent. It is an attempt by some to reclaim 'ethnic heritage' which was, according to some, 'stolen' during the slave trade.
'West Indian' and the 'West Indies' have been rejected under the premise that they are western constructs. Funny that as 'West Indian' is how the little old church-going ladies like to describe themselves.
Little old West Indian ladies (and men) are also not interested in the least at how their ancestors suffered at the hands of the white man. They baulk at the idea of the very existence of the modern phenonomen of 'Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome,' which incidentally excuses the bad behaviour of the black hooded thugs who prowl inner-city areas.
"Britain would still be primitive, vulgar and lawless if all recent immigrants left on the weekend."
And as the Guardianistas - the liberal professional middle classes - have severely damaged the ecology of especially British work class society, it's hardly surprising the problem wouldn't be fixed on a weekend. No more than a rain forest picks up when the loggers leave.
But I'm sure the liberal middle classes would be almost as happy in sinecures counselling the chavs*, as they are being diversity consultants.
If only they could unlearn their hatred of the British working class. Well, that'll take more than a weekend too.
*(they've got that one sewn up too I expect.)
I notice from the BBC report that Merton is a gang hotspot.
Suburbia has been well and truly invaded. (At least they are not MS-13)
I wonder if long term residents wonder were these people come from?
If they are curious they should study Merton Council's public housing allocation policy.
Historically most of the bad gangstas have come from down Jamaica way while the more recent African immigrants were, like most first-generation migrants, pretty law-abiding.
Strange that immigrants from certain countries instantly breed more than their fair share of a new generation of violent heartless criminals.
Any Londoner who can recollect the early 70's will remember this was when mugging began it's evil rise in the capital. Assuming the age of the culprits was about 15, then they would have been born in the latish 50's just after the start of mass immigration (BBC) from the exotic third-world.
What on earth could be the common factor in all this???
Foxy Brown writes: 'African-Caribbean' has become the preferred term to describe all persons of black Caribbean descent.
Foxy, unusually for you, you're missing the point.
These individuals were formerly known as 'Afro-Caribbeans". Afro-Caribbeans, are not always much to be desired, but they spring from British heritage/British Commonwealth and have produced fine servicemen who had fought for Britain and thus have a right to be in Britain. And not just from service, but because you are British.
Now 'they' - Labour "thought doctors" - are hosing Somalis and other African detritus under the door by quietly altering the term to 'African-Caribbeans'. There is no reason at all for this nomenklature other than manipulation of the British media. You're black. The somalis are black. Therefore, you must all be alike. They are disgusting.
Somalia has absolutely nothing to do with Britain or the Caribbean.
The French should be taking in their own former colonial heritage.
Not like you to miss a point, Foxy!
{ To what extent do you apportion these “characteristics of Somalia” to Nature or Nurture and which characteristics did you have in mind? }
Bert Rustle, there's a fascinating book called "Albion's Seed", about the four great migrations from Britain that shaped the United States. One of the most striking things is how strongly cultural traits persist over the centuries, so the descendants of people who migrated from the violent Anglo Scottish borders to Ulster and then the US South, several centuries ago are still far more violent than their compatriots who emigrated from placid East Anglia to New England.
So it is more than likely that people who come to the UK from violent and lawless societies will bring with them a culture that encourages that behaviour and this will persist for generations.
Now to Bert Rustle: "Verity wrote “Britain is primitive” It is not."
Oh yes it is! Behind you!
Verity wrote “Britain is vulgar” Isn’t vulgarity the fashion of the day in the USA as well?
How the hell would I know? I don't know what's going in Melboure or Caracas, either.
" Verity wrote “Britain is lawless”. Increasingly so. However we have yet to engage in the sectarian murder which is now reportedly commonplace in LA. Haven't read of "sectarian murder in LA" myself, so can't comment.
I can't deconstruct all Bertie Rustle's ravings, but given his nomme de guerre, he is as one with the now dead philosopher and communist-loving Bertrand Russell.
Dead. Buried. Gone.
Verity,
Point taken. London has become an odd foreign land home to groups of Angolans, Congolese and Cameroonians. I have sod all in common with these people and their cultures. It's laughable that organisations like the Beeb, the Guardian and the officialdom of local government (Brent, Lambeth, Harringey, Southwark and Hackney being the worst offenders) tell me that we're ALL BROTHERS!!
Interesting that Angolans, Congolese and Cameroonians choose to come here as opposed to going to their former colonial masters Portugal, Belgium and France respectively but that's another debate.
Precisely, Foxy! And it is bloody insulting that you should be assumed to accept these individuals as "African-Caribbeans" (which is so insultingly manipulative) because of your pigment -and not islands of your heritage.
Suddenly, you're an Angolan? You're a soul-sister of a Somali? Hello? This is what is so offensive - to me as a Brit indigene, as well. I am aware of what we owe our W Indian heritage. (Can you imagine a Somali Pvt Beharry VC??)
I hate the sly, silent, toxic drizzle of the left. And now they're hosing Somalis and similar French colonial detritus under the door as "African Caribbeans"?
What?
Actually Britan has always been violent and lawless - it took a Hanoverian General, Duke of Cumberland, to quell our own "Afghanistan" in Scotland and to destroy the tribes at Culloden and thereafter banning tribal dress and imposing military-politcal rule.
It took Militias in Northern mill towns like Bradford to keep Irish labourers under control in their ghetto districts bringing their ways from potato-blighted Ireland into urban hell-holes without proper sanitation or constabulary.
The Chartists had to be smashed with troops, and it was a long time before socialisation was such that police/military control could be relaxed. Maybe bloodinmg two generations of young men in world wars took the fight out of them; but the history of this nation is not one of peaceful coexistence and happy-go-lucky denizens.
The fact that there is no countervailing power to violence today, no State Force to hold back the tide of lawlessness is the problem. It is the lack of response to violence that is unusualgebn
Pvt Beharry VC brings tears to my old eyes every time I see him on the news. He's probably from Trinidad right? A thoroughly British place as Verity rightly points out.
Oh and Melbourne now has its own Somali refugee crime problem too, since you asked.
'You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!'
Ross F wrote “... there's a fascinating book called "Albion's Seed",” Thank you for the reference, I will look it up.
Ross F wrote “So it is more than likely that people who come to the UK from violent and lawless societies will bring with them a culture that encourages that behaviour ...” That the surrounding culture is part of the environment that people adapt to and thrive in or otherwise is not recognised by all but seems plausible to me. See “The Closed Circle: An Interpretation of the Arabs” by David Pryce-Jones ISBN 1566634407 for a thorough description of a non-Western way of going about things.
Ross F wrote “violent and lawless societies ... behaviour and this will persist for generations.” There you state by implication that different population groups behave differently. This is raised rather gently in “Race: The Reality of Human Differences” by Frank Miele,Vincent Sarich ISBN 0813343224. For a massive amount of corroborative data and a framework explanatory theory see “Race, Evolution & Behaviour: A Life History Perspective” J. Philippe Rushton, ISBN 0965683613. He has had the same treatment as Global Warming dissidents, which suggests he is getting warm.
verity wrote “Now to Bert Rustle ..” I had presumed from other comments in the past that you were based in the USA.
It was my intention to address the many interesting points raised in your post. On reading my reply again I would replace the word Balkans with mayhem and rewrite the references as:
vdare.com/burns/0704030_citizenship.htm brusselsjournal.com/node/2062
bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/pip/l7p2v/
verity wrote “nomme de guerre” Which corner of the church were you in when I was christened? I had not heard of “nomme de guerre” before, but I do like it, so thank you.
The Chartists had to be smashed with troops
Given that every Chartist demand except annual elections has been granted I might question that "had". It kind of presupposes that no alternative was possible.
Bertie Rustle - Nomme de guerre is the correct terminology. Nomme de plume is pretentious and incorrect.
No Anonymous because Chartists were accompanied by violence and murder. The Plug Riots were not peaceful; the militia had to fight violent chartists - think of the period 1842- with riots in Bradford and Manchester and the activities of the Physcal Force Chartists
The missing link(s)
“Immigration Policy Squanders The Value of Citizenship”,
Brussels is" bombing"
the increasing violence seen on the streets of Peckham
No Anonymous because Chartists were accompanied by violence and murder. The Plug Riots were not peaceful; the militia had to fight violent chartists - think of the period 1842- with riots in Bradford and Manchester and the activities of the Physcal Force Chartists
Just indulge me for one minute and separate the objectives of the Chartists from the means by which some attempted to achieve their goal.
The former were reasonable, the latter were not. I do not argue that the ends justify the means. Clearly, some revolutionaries allied themselves with the Chartists using the same entryist tactics as today. They are differentiated from most Chartists by the fact they they have objectives far beyond those demanding electoral reform, such as were achieved in 1848 in several European capitals.
It seems to me that the Chartist movement was generally non-violent and benevolent.
It also seems to me that just as left-wingers often have myoptic view of the Catholic church, prefering to see only the Magdalene Sisters rather than the hospitals called Saint this or Saint that, you are deliberately seeing only the revolutionaries and not the reformers.
No Anonymous I cannot indulge you - you should read up on Chartism. Try some Asa Briggs.
The Chartists were not an organised movement but extremely violent in Halifax, Manchester, Bradford, Leeds -
Go read up on the Newport Riots, the Sheffield Plot - the plans to seize control and the Riot Act being read in Barnsley and other Northern cities to deal with the mobs destroying mills and murdering millowners
you are deliberately seeing only the revolutionaries and not the reformers.
No. I said that this country has a violent history - it is not a peaceful tolerant history accepting whatever goes on. that is New Soviet Labour Myth.
It is a violent country which was held together by use of State Power and armed troops....not by therapeutically asking if everyone was comfortable in their seats and ready for another cup of tea.
The union problems pre-1914 and the Triple Alliance made people relieved that War removed the social tensions - but the return of strife in 1918-19 led people to fear a Communist takeover.
The Cenotaph was built to assuage the anger of destitute former soldiers and the fear that the troubles in Ireland and Germany might be copied in England.
This narrative of Peaceful Tranquil England is deceitful. It has an extremely violent history and may well do so again. Saltley Coke Depot in 1972 and Scargill's Flying Pickets with Mick McGahey's comments was not a peaceful tranquil Britain.....it was the outburst of violence just as the Victorians experienced it.
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