Wednesday, March 31, 2010

Smash Your Discrimination and Leave Ours Alone !

Who'd have thunk it ? India is cool with outlawing British forms of discrimination - we've just got to leave Indian forms of discrimination alone.

India is set to clash with Britain over Westminster's new Equality Bill which outlaws caste discrimination as a form of racism.

Ministers in London have become increasingly concerned about discrimination and persecution against lower caste Indians in Britain following a report last year which claimed thousands had been ill-treated because of their caste. The report, by the Anti-Caste Discrimination Alliance, surveyed 300 British Asians and cited cases of children being bullied at school, bus inspectors refusing to work with lower caste drivers, and employees being sacked after their bosses discovered their caste status.

Until now victims of caste discrimination in Britain have had no recourse to law. India also has legislation outlawing caste discrimination but is fiercely opposed to any comparison with racism. The Indian government has made its views known to British delegations at the UN's Human Rights Council in Geneva and at a European Union-India Human Rights Dialogue last month.

"India's position on this issue has been clear and consistent. Caste and race discrimination are two separate issues and there is no case to equate the two. We are opposed to attempts at international fora to equate the issues," said an official source.

Obviously some forms of discrimination are more acceptable than others. It's the culture, innit ?

UPDATE - for those interested, I wrote about caste killing in India here, caste privilege (not what you'd think - there are government privileges/quotas for lower castes) in India here, and noted a caste killing in Europe here.


Ivan said...

The point is that the British are interfering in the affairs of a religious community which has no problems with the rest of society. As you well know, with this soft totalitarian government, they will not stop with action against obvious discrimination such as refusing to seat Dalits in temples and suchlike. They will take it as a mandate to eventually determine that Brahmins should set up a quota for intermarriages and go through indoctrination classes. This is how the nanny state works as you have been tireless in pointing out. I say this as an Indian Christian who doesn't care one way or another for the caste system.

Weekend Yachtsman said...

Ivan, we are perfectly entitled and correct to "interfere in the affairs of a religious community" if that community wishes to reside in the UK.

It's nothing to do with totalitarianism (for once!); it's one country, one law.

Bloke said...

Bloody hell! From the Telegraph:

One prominent dalit campaigner had his arms and legs amputated because he refused to withdraw a police complaint against higher caste men who had raped his daughter.


I seem to remember there were some interesting comments regarding caste and discrimination in modern India over at Steve Sailer's blog in recent months.

It seems that in many Indian states there are caste employment quotas, and the higher IQ but less numerous and politically powerful Brahmins end up being the losers and often respond by emigrating to the USA.


No disrespect intended Ivan, but I seem to remember reading that Portuguese Catholic Priests were able to easily convert large numbers from the untouchable caste. For many, no doubt, it was seen as a way of escaping the caste system.


By coincidence, Sunni is over at CIF spouting about the racism of skin lightening products.

High Caste = lighter skin tone.

Bloke said...

Sorry. That should read "less politically powerful Brahmins"

Laban said...

I see Ivans point re seating arrangements in temples - that's a private affair IMHO.

But when it comes to things like employment there should at least be consistency. I don't see much difference between discriminating by caste and discriminating by race.

Anonymous said...

Caste roughly corresponds to colour. Where do you think the blonde Aryan thing came from? it was from the British Empire seeking to rationalise control of india in a hindu way.

Bloke said...

I don't see much difference between discriminating by caste and discriminating by race.

Well, its one thing preferring to work with people just like you, and really quite another when Surgeon's from Caste X amputate someone's limbs because he complained to the police about some people from Caste X raping his daughter.

The way that is written kind of implies to me, that rather than this unfortunate bloke's arms and legs being hacked off with machetes as might happen in Sierra Leone or Congo, they were actually surgically removed in some sort of Hollywood Nazi Dr Mengele style.

I mean really! This to me, is a million times worse than lynch mobs.

I thought India was relatively civilised. But no. Its just an organised version of the Congo.

That was the complaint about the Nazis wasn't it?

Not so much that they killed loads of people, but the rather organised way in which they did it.

But that Ok. They're Indians. Its their culture.


Stan said...

Oh my God!!!!!

Buses still have inspectors and they're still clashing with drivers?

Blakey would be proud.

Anonymous said...

Its hard to find out a lot about this sort of thing.

I'll bet there is plenty of talk about this on the internet but its discussed in Indian languages.

They know not to discuss it front of whitey - I'm guessing that Indians online tend to be highjer caste and more likely to speak English, again knowing not wash their dirty laundry in front of whitey.

Often all we have to go are bland assertions from the Indian govt that caste is a decling force, nothing to see here, move on. White western liberals lap this up of course, unquestioningly taking the party line. After all, only an evil racsit would harp on about caste and suggest they dont want us to know too much about it.

AgainsTTheWall said...

I don't see much difference between discriminating by caste and discriminating by race.

So speaks the busy-body who believes he has the right and duty to decide how others behave and what they believe. The ideological underpinning of the Nanny-State.

How about leaving people alone to get on with their lives? If others wish to discriminate (on whatever misguided grounds) its their business. I expect that you demand the right to follow your own conscience in your personal dealings so allow others the same right.

Laban said...

Oi ! I asked for consistency. I didn't say I thought our current employment laws were necessarily a good thing. But if they're there, a level playing field would be nice. Same rules for all, even if you might not agree with every rule.

Ivan said...

I should have read the linked article before spouting off. But the reporter seem to have picked up some bullshit from his hotel bar - a dalit's shadow making the poor brahmin ritually unclean is stuff from the 1930s - one doesn't see things like this anymore. In any case Dalits should convert to Christianity or Islam if they have problems with their religion. There is very little overt discrimination in South Indian states such as Kerela and Tamil Nadu, but it may be more prevalent in the North. Dalits have however not been taking things lying down, there is an active Maoist insurgency going on and it is in India's own interest to sort this out.

Yachtsman I agree that those who work in the government sector should not get to choose whom they will work with.

Bloke, I am a Catholic descended from the coastal converts gained by the Portuguese. Before they came we would answer to patronyms derived from 'Blackface', 'Fatman' or 'Happy Dick'. Now we are all D'Costas, D'Cruz and Fernandez. India is certainly not the Congo, it is a safe place to travel with mostly friendly people but you have to take the normal precautions against touts and thieves. Females should never travel alone.

Anonymous said...

Does not the UK have a state based discrimination/caste system via affirmative action , hate laws and quotas?