Sunday, March 03, 2013

"Haven't we all done things we regret when we were young?"

I don't know. For years the Peter Tatchell's of this world have been saying “don’t knock it til you’ve tried it”.

It appears that if someone takes them at their word, trying it, then knocking it, that’s a bad thing.

Shouldn’t we all profit from experience?

Cardinal O’Brien was the most high-profile and outspoken opponent of gay marriage in Britain, condemning it as a “grotesque subversion”.He warned that the plans, supported by the governments in Westminster and Holyrood, would open the way to “further aberrations” and said society “would be degenerating even further than it already has into immorality.”

 He can see into David Cameron's mind ! The good Cardinal seems to be pretty much on the case.

His comments earned him the title “Bigot of the Year” from the gay rights group Stonewall.
So what else is new ?

But last night Evan Davis, the BBC presenter, who is gay, posted a message on Twitter suggesting that the Cardinal’s fierce rhetoric might have been a way of suppressing his own “torment”.
* spits on floor *

The bad news is that our sin is ever before us. But there's good news too...

If only he'd just murdered someone forty-odd years ago !

Then the Indie and Guardian would have been asking why he's being hounded by vindictive hangers and floggers, and saying 'haven't we all done things we regret when we were young?'.


My offences truly I know them;
My sin is always before me.
Against you, you alone, have I sinned;
What is evil in your sight I have done.

(FWIW, I do think that priestly chastity, honoured more in the breach than the observance for at least the first thousand years of the Church, has been highly dysgenic (as well as perhaps unscriptural - wasn't St Peter married?). Look at the number of great Britons post-Reformation who grew up in a vicarage - Hooke and Wren, Ben Johnson, Hobbes, Nelson, Austen, Coleridge, the Brontes for starters.

Similarly in medieval Europe we see that prominent rabbis and Talmudic scholars had more children than the average.

But for the Catholic nations (and pre-Reformation northern Europe), priests, a traditionally high status occupation, had few acknowledged children - certainly much fewer than average, tending towards zero in the last few centuries.

If some of the brightest and best don't breed, it's not good for any population.)


DJ said...

Yes, indeed, it's almost as if this Church guy had put the overall needs of society over his own particular interests.

Where will this madness end?

Meanwhile, since we have to listen to idiot liberals jabbering about hypocrisy, what about Cast Iron Dave, the guy who thinks that marriage is kind of squaresville, but makes sure to raise his own kids in a traditional family environment?

Anonymous said...

Many things in life which give some people pleasure may not be good for society in general.

But it now seems impossible that a rational being could simultaneously admit to enjoying X, whatever X be, and thinking that it wouldn't be good if X became generally acceptable conduct.


Ryan said...

The most zealous anti-alchohol campaigners tend to be reformed alcoholics.

If a man spends his youth fornicating with prostitutes in his youth, does that make his subsequent condemnation of such behaviour when married with children somehow "out of order"? I just don't see it.

Homosexual acts are by nature "fornication" and I don't see why the Catholic church should be anymore expected to celebrate such acts than, say, Tesco or your local Post Office. The Church really should take this tack, rather than focussing so specifically on homosexuality.

I happen to have a fondness for petitie oriental women dressed in latex and lightly oiled, but it is something I try to suppress in real life as my wife really wouldn't approve and certainly I don't expect my local church to have a special celebration of my particular sexual desires!

Ryan said...

By the way, I was amused to find the Russian are horrified that gay marriage has become an issue there. Since radical gay politics were invented by the KGB/STASI (amongst many other things) to destabilise western societies it is ironic to find it has now become a big issue in the former communist bloc where it is seen as a "dangerous western idea".

Martin Adamson said...

In the Orthodox churches it is actually obligatory for parish priests to be married - only monks are celibate.

Recusant said...


That is some way from the truth. Practically they like the idea of them being married, but canonically they consider the ideal is or them to be celibate.

They are, in any case, no allowed to marry once they become a priest: all married priests are married before they are ordained.

BenSix said...

It appears that if someone takes them at their word, trying it, then knocking it, that’s a bad thing.

One of the accusers claims that the incident took place in 2001. 62 is a bit late for youthful experimentation.

It is the dishonesty that I find unpleasant. If he had come out and said, "I have homosexual inclinations but I try to suppress them and so you should you" that would have been defensible. He would not have been made cardinal, of course, but I'm not sure the Bible qualifies its disapproval for dishonesty by saying that it is fine if it improves one's job prospects...

Anonymous said...

Ben - if that's true it must be said that at the very least he should have seriously considered his vocation.

"I happen to have a fondness for petite oriental women dressed in latex and lightly oiled"

Haven't we all, in a very real sense, had that fondness? I know I have (maybe minus the latex).

(It's like those signs at work - 'Please leave this facility as you would wish to find it'. Where the hell am I supposed to find the jacuzzi full of warm oil, let alone the occupants?)

(Google verification - tool Leg !)

Ryan said...

By the way, I notice that the government is once again banging on about smoking, drinking and eating being bad for you. Seems to me that with 1 in 10 of gay men being HIV+ infected perhaps they should be condemning the practice of gay sex in the same manner? Seem like a very bad habit to me, possibly fatal to you and fatal to others and costing the NHS millions. Bit like smoking really.

Ah well, it is one rule for minorities and one rule for the majority. Seems like the majority always comes out worse though? Funny how this "democracy" thing works isn't it?

Anonymous said...

You have left Gordon Brown off that list of great Britons for some reason.

Anonymous said...

O'Brien has always been an open dissenter. He has a track record of dissent and error as long as your arm.

I always knew he was up to no good. When he started fulminating about marriage, I was taken aback, because it contradicted all the other pro-homosexuality things he's said over the years.

Someone must have been twisting his arm.

So unorthodox was O'Brien that, when he was elevated to Cardinal, he was forced to make an extended profession of faith, requiring him to uphold the Church's teachings on homosexuality, contraception and clerical celibacy. I suspect this was on Ratzinger's behest, because it's well known that he didn't want him to become a Cardinal in the first place.

The elephant in the room, (or perhaps more accurately the elephant in Rome) is, how did O'Brien manage to remain a priest at all, let alone become elevated to Cardinal? There was nothing to commend him. No great works or achievements. No body of theology. Nada.

I can only assume that the rumours are true. That since Vatican II, evil men, predatory homosexuals, have managed to gain a foothold in the Church up to the highest levels.

We must pray on our hands and knees that the next Pope will be a man of Orthodoxy and courage who will purge the Church of this evil.

Ryan said...

Oh come on Hugh, the Catholic Church has always been full of homosexuals. In Ireland it was always considered to be the refuge of gay men that had no hope of fitting in with Irish society. My previous priest was more gay than Louie Spence.

As for being gay men being "evil", God seems to have curiously neglected to make it one of the ten commandments, preferring insted to exhort us not to covet our neighbours ox. As far as I'm concerned if it isn't mentioned in the Gospel according to Mark and isn't in the ten commandments then it isn't Christianity, just Medieval superstition and prejudice.

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