"Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold" - W.B. Yeats.
"We're doomed !" - Private Frazer.
"Like scrolling through a decade's worth of Daily Mail editorials in 20 minutes" - TheLoonyFromCatford
I did read somewhere else that these are diversions signs on main roads and they are for Polish lorry drivers who, not understanding the signs,had been ignoring the diversions and causing traffic jams and chaos.
It actually doesn't bother me. I like pragmatism. It is what made America great.
Just recently, I had to drive from Gatwick to Stansted and noticed a couple of roadsigns on the M25 that had translations (if I remember correctly) in German and Czech. A few years ago, I'm sure the same signs were in French and German. I guess that nowadays, east european lorry drivers are more likely to get lost in the UK compared to the average european tourist.
And as our language isn't connected to Polish (other than being an Indo-European language) it's probably hard for the lorry drivers to infer meanings.
'It said there was a significant Polish population in the Crewe area, thought to be about 3,000, and a number of them made their living driving commercially'. Surely the question is, if they can't read English road signs should they be on the road in the first place, let alone making a living from driving?
Guardian Apostate - Well, if they're living in Britain, of course they should be speaking English. But if they are lorry drivers from Poland or Hungary or somewhere, it seems only sensible to provide them with road signs they understand. It's part of commerce, after all (as long as they're not smuggling people, of course).
Saw in the Daily Express today that these signs are actually more widespread than you'd think. It's not just for lorry drivers either; there's advertisements around Birmingham in Polish. Who's actually responsible for these putting up the road signs?
"..the question is, if they can't read English road signs should they be on the road in the first place"Indeed, that's the question alright. The answer is 'No'..."..if they are lorry drivers from Poland or Hungary or somewhere, it seems only sensible to provide them with road signs they understand. It's part of commerce, after all"I have no problem whatever with private companies dishing out information, advertising etc in whatever the language they feel most befits their target group. But English is the language of the public domain with regard to our road signage, etc.
Juliam - I do agree with you and there should be no government forms printed in Bangladeshi, Urdu or other third world languagues ... but for professional lorry drivers who are in Britain to make deliveries or pick-ups,it is hard enough to adjust to driving a huge semi on the left side of the road, never mind trying to understand warning signs in English.(Of course, some enterprising gal or fellow in Poland could sell a short course of essential English for lorry drivers to Polish trucking companies ....)
Its wrong because its a disincentive to learn English, if they don't understand English they shouldn't be driving commercially. I wouldn't dream of going to Poland or Russia and expect them to fit in with me rather than the other way around.I don't think its so much a problem if its only a temporary sign though.
And as our language isn't connected to Polish (other than being an Indo-European language) it's probably hard for the lorry drivers to infer meanings.Many years ago European road signs were standardised on a graphical basis instead of the old British verbal signs...it would be nice if foreigners would learn them and drive on the right side of the road.Ireland has a very high rate of accidents because foreigners are driving too fast and without attention....one problem is to know just what insurance Polish vehicles are carrying and personally i feel they should be checked at ports and run through index plate databases and issued with a sticker to state the driver must obtain a British licence and British plates within 12 months as per EU regulations
A lorry-driver delivering cargo somewhere in Britain and then turning around and driving back to Poland should get a British driver's licence?Do you have a French driver's licence for driving in France. If you rent a car in the US, do you have an American driver's licence? What is the big deal if a few temporary, emergency road signs are written in Polish, when you tolerate applications for free taxpayer-funded housing being written in Urdu, Bangladeshi and god knows what? And hospital forms written in a whole gange of third world languages? They're living in Britain - although they shouldn't be in the country if they can't pay for their living accommodation - and should be fluent in our language.Commercial, legally employed foreign drivers passing through are different.
I lived in France for two years and saw the number of British drivers who turned round corners into the wrong lane (the left), or drove out of a parking lot and turned into the wrong lane - although they were well aware that they were in France, and most of the time drove in the right lane. But there are momentary lapses. This must be doubley difficult when driving an 18-wheeler and judging overtaking distances from wrong side and wrong perspective. Then to be distracted with diversion notices you don't understand ...Surely it's practical to put up temporary diversion signs in Polish if it is a route often used by them?I don't see it as a thin end of a wedge. Unlike making government documents available in Urdu for people who are actually living on British soil and asking for handouts from the British taxpayer.
Exits off the Kent motorways London bound have long had "DRIVE ON THE LEFT" signs along them in French, Dutch and German.Like Verity points out, from my own experience it's when leaving one ways that you forget. Once in Spain I knew I should be on the "wrong" side but then had a momentary blockage before I could remember the "right" side.
Verity - as I understand it these signs are for the benefit of recent Polish immigrants that have moved to the area as opposed to Polish lorry drivers travelling here from abroad. If that is the case then surely it's exactly the same as government documents in Urdu?
Guardian Apostate - if the signs are for immigrants, rather than people delivering goods from overseas and then returning, they are indeed no different from applications for free housing and benefits written in Urdu.Given that the second language of everyone in the world is English, I believe learning to speak very simple, basic English cannot be very difficult.
Well Verity I pay road tax to use the roads - foreigners do not.I expect them to fit in - I don't think the Polish-registered cars I see around are coming across to deliver krakowska and then going home.As for lorries - I have seen the mess the Sovtranstvo trucks from Russia make overtaking in the third lane and turning over - and the illegal hours Polish and Lithuanian truck-drivers run in violation of the Directives.I also know from British truck drivers how they are being undercut by Lithuanian and Polish trucks using brand-new Volvo rigs paid for by the EU to work for as little as £3/hour to get loads and undercut.They have just busted a large German Spediteur for using falsely documented Bulgarians to circumvent rules and regulations. Only by checking these trucks at ports of entry and scrutinising drivers can you check they are a) licensed b) insured c) not carry weapons or illegals d) running on safe tyres e) not engaged in cabotage
This must be doubley difficult when driving an 18-wheeler and judging overtaking distances from wrong side and wrong perspective.They don't have 18-wheelers - they are not certified.We have had quite a few deaths from foreign lorry drivers and should do what they Dutch do and impound and sell the vehicles as well as jailing the miscreants.Now the European Motor Vehicle Database and Driver Licence database is to go Europe-wide it should be possible to check every vehicle and driver to see if they have convictions in other EU countries - and after next year any foreigner in Britain for more than 90 days will have to have an ID Card
Well, I am anti-EU anyway and I really don't care what their rules and regulations and directives say, because it's not a legitimate organisation. It was never put to the British vote.
BTW, when you are driving in the Languedoc, the radio will have a sudden urge to speak in English. As in, "And for our English visitors, please don't forget we drive on the right in France." They then go on to dress it up with some announcements of what's going on. Festivals, and so on. This must have been a very painful decision for the French to make. On the one hand, we want to save French lives. On the other hand, we would have to broadcast in English in our own country.....".
verity said... "I did read somewhere else that these are diversions signs on main roads and they are for Polish lorry drivers who, not understanding the signs,had been ignoring the diversions and causing traffic jams and chaos."Test them for english language competence at border and send them back if they fail. We'll see no reduction in Polish imports, but a small upturn in employment opportunities for outpriced British drivers, paid for mainly by the Polish manufacturers/distributors who because of competition simply won't be able to pass their increased costs on to British consumers.verity said..."It actually doesn't bother me. I like pragmatism. It is what made America great."America isn't great. America... isn't.verity said...But if they are lorry drivers from Poland or Hungary or somewhere, it seems only sensible to provide them with road signs they understand. It's part of commerce, after all (as long as they're not smuggling people, of course).This is multiculturalism - and it demands Vietnamese, Swahili, German,... ad infinitum, roadsigns. Aside from the aesthetics of yet more road-signs, there are the financial costs which you would socialise Verity. I would opt out of the financial and I object to the transformation of my environment into a world language notice board indecipherable to me.
Well, I am anti-EU anyway and I really don't care what their rules and regulations and directives say, because it's not a legitimate organisation. It was never put to the British vote.Yes but it is implemented in British Law by a Parliament which claims to be a legitimate organisation put to the British vote in exactly the same way as NATO and UN and WTO and US bases in Britain was decided.
I thought this was a one-off, for one particularly complicated diversion which sees heavy usage by Polish lorries. If that's not the case, then no. No signs in Polish (or anything else). Who was the local authority who put them up and we can email them? Massive emailings work, as in the thousands of us who emailed him when some prat in (I think it was Manchester) decided that the new city cemetary would have all the graves facing mecca. So the default burial position in Britain, an ancient Christian country, was to be Islamic.I sent the item to Little Green Footballs along with the man's email address. Charles ran it. It was a weekend, and when that man got in to work on Monday, there were literally thousands of emails with robust opinions on his computer. By the end of the business day, he had apologised and said all graves in the new cemetary would face West, the default Christian position.Never forget, these local authorities don't like it up 'em.Nick - your statement that "America isn't great. America ... isn't" sounds pretentious and ignorant. Such lofty vitriol usually comes from people who have never visited that great country.
Verity I know you are sound but how do you think we got in this multicultural mess? It's all preparation and gradual. Do you think a clerk made this decision on their own on a purely functional basis? When we have the world cup there'll be foreign police here. Then they'll be arresting us. All perfectly normal and gradual. Our rulers ignore our feelings completely because feelings are irrational and bad - unless they are PC sanctioned feelings. My feelings when I saw this was a horrible deep sadness like that associated with mortality. Mortality of my homeland. Just my problem I suppose.... In passing I'd like to offer the thought that what has happend to us should be seen in the context of imperial rule. I'm sure they moved people around the empire for economic reasons all the time - they just did it to Yorkshire etc. too from the 1950s. Either that or the USA instructed us to become multicultural so we wouldn't be like Germany. Just some thoughts. Capitalism is the best system but it sure pisses on the working class when we get too comfortable which wew were after 2 world wars and thinking we deserved something. (Nice ramble, enjoyed that.)
Anonymous 7:53 - Yes, it breaks my heart,too. Seeing your beloved country (and your beloved culture) disappearing before your very eyes is intolerably sad.I left because I could see the destination only too clearly. It began with the vicious left, in the '20s, who derided nationalism. The left, as we know, is mortally toxic. They've gnawed away at our social infrastructure and our identity for 80 years. But, most tragic of all, the British people allowed it.At any time, they could have put their foot down. And they didn't.WWII was perfect for the left. War is tragic. (Actually, that is not necessarily true at all, but it sounds true and that is all that counts.) So how do we stop wars between countries? Why, we meld them and make them all one country, ruled,explicably out the capital of a country that couldn't fight its way out of a paper bag. Black is white and day is night.Apart from the EU, which was slipped in under the table as EFTA, the next destructive weapon the left had up their sleeve was "multiculturalism". Not once have I read an explanation of why this was desirable for Britain. Not once.It was only presented in negatives. I.e., if you were against having your national identity diluted, especially by people from inferior cultures, that made you a racist, a word which rapidly acquired firepower as the ultimate insult. In fact, its meaning got refrabricated to include islam, a belief system freely entered in to, unlike race. Islam was brought in to destroy Christianity.In the last decade, a very stupid, dimwitted man has been the charming figurehead for those writing the lines and giving the stage directions behind the scenes. Blair was exactly right for his purpose. He came in without a single idea in a head that was empty of everything except inexplicable self-regard.He had no thoughts for his country; no programme; no message. Nothing. That is why in his first few months, when most new chief executives are brimming with ideas and the energy to execute them, he had to send a memo round asking if anyone had "any ideas for exciting new initiatives with which I can be personally associated".
Verity if you don't mind me asking where did you go? - I assume it was better. I'm definately disgusted of Bognor now and seriously uncomfortable here. I don't want these twats emptying my bedpan and burying me. Is there anywhere to escape to?
Anonymous 8:36 - Mexico.
Thanks for the information Verity.
Anonymous - If you are interested, yesterday William at The Croydonian ran a guest blog by me on the new Mexican administration.http://croydonian.blogspot.com/2007/02/calderon-and-matters-mexican.html
Verity said...Nick - your statement that "America isn't great. America ... isn't" sounds pretentious and ignorant.The pragmatism you say made America great doesn't anymore exist, unless it's pragmatic to make your country the world - the "invade the world, invite the world" strategy, as Steve Sailer describes it. For that reason too, that which for me makes America 'American', also no longer exists. I think of America as a republic, not an empire; and as a people, not as a global traffic station.
Nick - For that reason too, that which for me makes America 'American', also no longer exists. I think of America as a republic, not an empire; and as a people, not as a global traffic station. 12:38 AM Your 'global traffic station' is our beloved Britain.Once beloved, that is.
Verity,"global traffic station" is Frank Field's description of modern Britain with which I absolutely agree - you're right. But it's equally appropriate for the USA, which was my point. Making one's country a "global traffic station" is not sensibly pragmatic. It is national suicide.
We had such a beautiful, sweet country without our people interacting with one another in the normal course of our lives, until the facists.And Britain gave away our wonderful country. We were a family, once.
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