Sunday, October 31, 2010

"Ihre Papiere bitte, Mein Herr"

I thought we fought a World War for the right not to have to carry ID around? Does someone need to tell the Dutch who won?

"The Britons were among 34 people arrested during the day, Amsterdam Police spokesman Rob van der Veen said. It is understood the five were held for not producing identification while on their way to the demonstration."


The Belfast Telegraph report implies the arrested Brits were EDL members. This Sky News report reckons they were left counter-demonstrators.

Five Britons were among 34 people arrested by Dutch police as they headed to confront far-right activists showing their support for controversial politician Geert Wilders... The five Britons arrested were among 18 people picked up for failing to carry proper identification. They were fined £60 and freed, police spokesman Rob van der Veen said.


Whether they be right or left, staunch patriots or fascist thugs, noble idealists or snivelling Guardianistas, it seems remarkable that supposedly liberal Holland requires them to carry papers at all times or risk arrest. Is it like that all over the blasted Continent of Rape Victims?

8 comments:

Anonymous said...

Pretty much all the European countries with laws based on the Code Napoleon actually do indeed require you to carry ID at all times - France, Belgium, Netherlands, Italy...it's not always enforced.

"Uwe dokumenten alstublieft, meneer.

Hexe said...

1. As anonymous said, lots of countries require it, not only the evil Germans.

2. You didn't win freedom from ID papers when you won the war, you won freedom from Nazism that abuses everything including ID documentation.

3. failing to bring your papers along means a lot of extra work for the cops who already have a rather full schedule. ID papers do save a lot of bother, so does the credit card in your pocket and all the other countless ID items you also have.

4. At least the Dutch still check they borders it appears, which is more than can be said of the UK, give that those guys swanned out without papers, they'll expected to swan in again the same way.

Mr Grumpy said...

Whether they be right or left, they get little sympathy from me. I lived in Germany for five years and never had to show ID to a copper (except at the airport). But then I don't look much like trouble.

If you want to do your demonstrating in Holland, be prepared to obey Dutch law. If these folk - right or left - are so ignorant of things Dutch that they don't know you have to carry ID, they're not exactly well qualified to meddle in Dutch politics, are they?

Brian said...

I reckon the request to see IDs is one of those convenient ways Police in all countries have to take someone off the streets who has potential to cause them trouble. It used to be said that any decent copper could find at least half a dozen faults on any car if the driver annoyed them.

Anonymous said...

Here is a little more in depth coverage of that event and some videos, Google translate is your friend: http://www.pi-news.net/2010/11/auf-den-spuren-von-polizei-medien-und-antifa/#more-162056

Anonymous said...

Use this link:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pi-news.net%2F2010%2F11%2Fauf-den-spuren-von-polizei-medien-und-antifa%2F

The hash sign in the original url breaks the translator and you get 404.

Anonymous said...

Look up Clarence Henry Willcock and you'll realise you've missed out on a big slice of history here! We actually had ID cards during WW2 and the Attlee government continued to enforce them. It was the brief 1950s Conservative government of Churchill that actually abolished them. From Wikipedia:

Jump to: navigation, search

Clarence Henry Willcock, (23 January 1896 - 12 December 1952) a member of the Liberal Party, was the last person in the UK to be prosecuted for refusing to produce an Identity Card.

On 7 December 1950, Harry Willcock, 54 year old dry-cleaning manager was stopped while driving in Finchley, London by police constable Harold Muckle who demanded that he present his identity card at a police station within 48 hours. He refused, reputedly saying "I am a Liberal and I am against this sort of thing". He was prosecuted under the National Registration Act 1939, convicted and fined 10 shillings.

Willcock appealed, in the case Willcock v Muckle. Although he lost the appeal, the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales, Lord Goddard, spoke out against the continued use of compulsory Identity Cards and commented that they "tend to make people resentful of the acts of the police".

As a result of the court case, Willcock became well-known and he founded the Freedom Defence Association to campaign against ID cards. In a publicity event he tore up his own identity card in front of the National Liberal Club, inspiring a later similar action for the press outside Parliament by the British Housewives' League. When the Conservative government elected at the 1951 general election decided to abolish identity cards in 1952, Willcock received hundreds of redundant cards through the post to auction for charity.

Willcock was the Liberal candidate in Barking in 1945 and in 1950. He came third in both contests, losing his deposit in 1950. He had been a councillor and magistrate in Horsforth, Leeds.

Willcock was born in Alverthorpe, Wakefield, Yorkshire and died, while debating at a meeting of the Eighty Club at the National Liberal Club. The last word on his lips before his death was reported to have been "freedom."

Goddard's comments are thought to have influenced Winston Churchill's decision to scrap compulsory national Identity Cards in 1952.

Anonymous said...

We had ID cards after WW2 - the Attlee government didn't abolish them; that was left to the brief 1950s government of Churchill. One reason was (courtesy of Wikipedia):

Jump to: navigation, search

Clarence Henry Willcock, (23 January 1896 - 12 December 1952) a member of the Liberal Party, was the last person in the UK to be prosecuted for refusing to produce an Identity Card.

On 7 December 1950, Harry Willcock, 54 year old dry-cleaning manager was stopped while driving in Finchley, London by police constable Harold Muckle who demanded that he present his identity card at a police station within 48 hours. He refused, reputedly saying "I am a Liberal and I am against this sort of thing". He was prosecuted under the National Registration Act 1939, convicted and fined 10 shillings.

Willcock appealed, in the case Willcock v Muckle. Although he lost the appeal, the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales, Lord Goddard, spoke out against the continued use of compulsory Identity Cards and commented that they "tend to make people resentful of the acts of the police".