Friday, September 15, 2006

Boom ! Boom !

Douglas Murray gives David Cameron both barrels.

There is the worrying fact that David Cameron has now joined the legions of politicians who have decided to speak about Islamic theology and get it fanatically wrong. Mr Cameron said yesterday that Muslim terrorists:

Are driven by a wholly incorrect interpretation - an extreme distortion - of the Islamic faith.

Aside from the distastefulness of a Tory leader feeling the need to interpret Islamic scripture, this statement is simply untrue. Muslim terrorists are driven chapter and verse by justifications in the Koran. They may be debatable interpretations, or interpretations which may be argued away from, but to pretend that their Koranic impetus is "wholly incorrect" or an "extreme distortion" is itself wholly incorrect and an extreme distortion.

Be fair - he's following in the footsteps of those great Islamic scholars Tony Blair and George Bush, both of whom have said much the same thing.

If Mr Cameron is going to take the reins of government he is going to have to look like he can run a country, and - most importantly - the country's foreign policy. He must prove himself worthy of the task. Monday's speech gives me less hope on this front than I had previously thought possible. Although he offered no specific answers to the problems of resurgent Islamo-fascism, and though he spent a deal of time attacking our friends for wholly justified policies of containment, the only answer Mr Cameron gave was that we should introduce a new style into our foreign policy. It should always raise alarm-bells when politicians talk style and not specifics. Style does not save lives. Cameron said:

I believe that in the last five years we have suffered from the absence of two crucial qualities which should always condition foreign policy-making. Humility, and patience.

This is not just disagreeable stuff - and un-statesman-like stuff. It is dangerously misguided stuff - the result of a man who appears to see foreign policy through the eyes of domestic habit.

What we need to demonstrate least of all with Iran at the moment is "patience". Patience on the part of the international community has all but given Tehran a nuclear bomb. An increase in our level of "patience" now will produce a permanent existential threat to Israel and the West, and ensure the whole Middle East goes nuclear within a few years.

And as for "humility". It is simply embarrassing that a candidate hoping to lead one of the world's foremost military powers should hope to win votes by speaking like this. This is domestic posing - deeply trivial and irrelevant. What will an onslaught of "humility" directed at Syria and Iran achieve at the moment? Anything? Of course not. And what Cameron worryingly fails to realise is that it is our weakness - our humility - which makes the Ahmadinejads, Assads and Nasrallahs of this era hate us even more. Our weakness is a provocation to them (witness the upsurge in Hezbollah-sponsoring defiance in the last year). Mr Cameron's deeply misguided message is that we need an increase of weakness when he should realize that our weakness - perceived or otherwise - is the problem, not the solution.

Where I part company with Mr Murray is in recognising that, like it or not, David Cameron has sound electoral reasons for his foolishness. Anti-Americanism has been the (only) acceptable prejudice of the educated English for the last few years, and recent polls showing a majority in favour of decoupling from US foreign policy may well have had the same effect on him as the 1933 East Fulham by-election had on Stanley Baldwin.

Just as Baldwin's reluctance to rearm (supported all the way by Labour and the Liberals, who both voted against the introduction of the first Hurricane and Spitfire squadrons) had dire effects in 1939 and beyond, so Cameron's desire to chime with the thoughtless prejudice of the Brits will not do them any favours either.

In Churchill's words : "The cheers of weak, well-meaning assemblies soon cease to echo, and their votes soon cease to count. Doom marches on."


Anonymous said...

When I read this utterly ignorant statement by David Cameron, it took my breath away. Does the man read? Has he read one, single thing about Islam in the past - oh - five years? One single article in a magazine, even?

Jihad isn't a misreading of Islam. It is Islam. That's it. That's the nub. "Holy" war to advance their Dark Ages diety. That's all there is. Conquest, Dave.

Dave, I hope to God that you and the ignorant idiots around you lose this election big time. Lose it badly enough for you to get the sack as leader. You are a moron. And you are dangerous, as deeply ignorant people always are.

Anonymous said...

The more muslims breed the more votes mealy mouthed MPs get!
They, the muslims, are being pandered to in a way that we could never a time when our votes were courted!

Anonymous said...

Can Dave count? At the last reckoning there were 2 million muslims and 58 million non-muslims. Does this mean anything? Dave, after all, got a 1st in PPE which means that he should be able to do sums and that kind of thing. Or does he actually believe this crap about the "Religion of Peace" somehow perverted by a few ne're-do-wells in Finsbury Park?

Anonymous said...

Yup, Verity/Umbongo, Cameron knows, I think, what you say....

However, he wants to be elected and a significant part (largely female, I suspect) of the electorate does not want to hear anti-Muslim sentiments.

I'm no fan of Cameron. But I'd rather a left-wing Tory government than a Blairite/Brownite Labour government --- not least because the devil is always in the legislative detail!

Labour bleeds us all financially - to no purpose; and -- much more seriously --- it also systematically infects our institutions with PC!

So, ideological purity is a luxury -- which will only lead to more NuLab tyranny. It's simply adolescent and counter-productive to support anything other than the only party that can possibly dislodge NuLab.

Anonymous said...

No, Paul ilc,it is not adolescent to fail to support the only party that can knock Labour out. For one thing, there is no such party. In the papers today, Labour has a one point lead over the Conservatives - and that is with all the bad news, Tony Blair's mad antics, the economy's nose dive, the possibility that Blair will be getting a call from Yates of the Yard and so on.

People are not warming to Dave.

Second, I do not want to see Cameron and his crew in. I would rather see them lose and get the sack, Labour utterly, utterly screw up the economy and the law for a couple of years in office, and then there be a vote of no confidence, with a real Tory leader - David Davis or possibly William Hague.

Anonymous said...

Paul ilc - you say, "However, he wants to be elected and a significant part (largely female, I suspect) of the electorate does not want to hear anti-Muslim sentiments."

With the muslims intent on blowing up Britain for allah, and people don't want to hear them criticised? Then they deserve what they get.

Anonymous said...


Sorry, but you are not living in the real world - partly because you are an ex-pat.

With an independent Bank of England, the NuLab tyranny is not going to screw up the economy; and, as I have £ms invested in the UK economy (which I suspect you do not!), I do not wish to see it crash.

The only way out of the mess we are in is to persuade a majority to elect a soft, leftish Conservative governemt. Once in power, the Tories can try to lead rather than follow public opinion. They may fail or falter; but that would be better than more NuLab, just as Heath (!)for all his myriad failngs was better then Wilson/Callaghan

Meanwhile, those who flirt with the idea of voting for UKIP or thre BNP shoukd grow up. Can't they see that they see thast they are the mirror-image of the left's groupuscles?

Get real and grow up!

Anonymous said...

"With an independent Bank of England, the NuLab tyranny is not going to screw up the economy"

There are plenty of indicators that Brown's policies already HAVE had damaging effects on the economy - it's simply not that obvious because a lot of the financial chickens (massive debt, PFI schemes gone wild, etc) haven't come home to roost just yet. A lot of speculation is about that this is why Brown doesn't want to wait until May.....

"a significant part (largely female, I suspect).."

That's an interesting suspicion - why do you think the female vote in the UK trends left..?

Anonymous said...

That's an interesting suspicion - why do you think the female vote in the UK trends left..?

Surveys have shown that if woman had been denied the vote after WW2 then we would never had had a Conservative Government. Up until the 1997 female voters picked the Tories. However, their vote then moved to Labour. [Remember we are not talking totalities - merely majorities].

I understand that Britain was fairly untypical. I acknowledge that I don't know the detailed breakdown but as one example, in Sweden, right wing parties attract more male votes.

It seems unfair to blame the women who have switched from Tory to Labour whilst ignoring the men who have always voted Tory. Thus Paul's comment is a bit disengenous, but then he may be claiming that Britain is becoming more like Sweden.

Anonymous said...

Of course, David Cameron is a rather stupid man, but even then ... to think he is in a position to tell muslim terrorists what their religion allows - muslims who are steeped in islam and the koran from the first minute they get a brain cell (if they ever do) - but somehow, Dave sort of ... oh, what's that word? ... INTUITS what islam is all about and that gives him the authority to lecture muslims.

Is this the most stupid man in national British politics today?

On Guido yesterday, Labour is one point ahead in the polls. This is after John Prescott, Lord Levy, the possibility that Tony will be arrested for selling honours, the corruption of the Dome and the casinos, the ridicule of the "Legacy Tour", the entire Labour Party down on its knees begging their leader to pleeeeeeze, just go now! And they're still one point ahead of Dave with his windmill on his roof, his disabled kid, the huskies, the ice floes, the trip to India, the new logo, his laughable remarks on islam and all his other trendy leftie pronouncements. And Dave still can't get a break. I wonder why.

I mean, let me repeat that. Despite everything, Labour is one point ahead of the Tories.

Anonymous said...

paul ilc - if you think I would accept the thinking of someone who announces on the internet that he has millions of pounds invested in Britain, you err.

Edward Heath sold Britain into Europe. I am not sure that Callaghan would have been worse. Whatever damage he did would have been temporary and easily reversed. Heath committed suicide on behalf of Britain.

The British economy has dropped from 5th to 6th in the world. Maybe you'd better get those millions out fast!

"Meanwhile, those who flirt with the idea of voting for UKIP or thre BNP shoukd grow up. Can't they see that they see thast they are the mirror-image of the left's groupuscles?" Perhaps it's you who needs to grow up.

Do you really think that anyone voting BNP, UKIP or any other fringe party as a protest thinks those parties stand a chance of forming a government? Are you familiar with British democracy? Registering a protest vote is part of our way of life.

You also mention that I am "not living in the real world, partly because I'm an expat". Hello? Earth to Paul ilc - the whole world is the real world. The country I live in is the real world. China is the real world. Des Moines, Iowa is the real world. What on earth are you talking about?

I don't know where you got the notion that women don't want to hear islamics criticised, but women, being the mothers of daughters and all, are very concerned indeed about presence of islam in Britain. And women, by and large, vote Tory (although yes, they deserted the Tories and flocked to ZaNu Lab, but only because they thought Tony Blair was a secret Tory). Women are conservative by nature. You seem to have misread the entire human race. Or, as anonymous 10:09 says, you are a little disingenuous.

Anonymous said...


It must be a rogue poll but, as mentioned in the past, the approx 7% lead for the Tories in, assumedly, "non-rogue" polls is pathetic against this government and a good measure of the failure of Cameron to connect with his new "core" constituency. As one of his old "core" I hope Dave is not relying on my vote at the next election: and I don't believe I'm alone - hence the 7% lead.

paul ilc

Whatever Dave's motives in his approach to Islam and veiled anti-Americanism, any politician who gets a pat on the back from MPACUK has already signed up as a card-carrying useful idiot. I'd always thought that, if I wanted dhimmitude, I'd have to vote Respect and contribute to Robert Fisk's pension scheme. It seems all I have to do is vote Tory.

Anonymous said...

He's not getting my vote, either, umbongo.

On reflection, I wish some reporter had had the mental agilitiy to ask Dave, "Well, Dave, what is the correct interpretation, undistorted, of the islamic faith?

"How do you personally interpret Islamic scripture - and tell us which chapter in the koran, or which surah you're quoting on each point, please."

Can you imagine how dismissive Dave would have been? "Oh, well, I'm not going to pretend to be qualified to explain islam! Ha ha ha ha! I'm not going to get into interpreting another religion ..."

"But you just did, Dave. You said people's perception of Islam was an extreme distortion. Distortion of what, Dave? Which part of the koran or which surah are they distorting?"

The man is an ignorant wash-out.

Anonymous said...

I'm sure I read somewhere that Churchill did not attend Baldwins's funeral he loathed him that much. Cameron is a fool and though I despise him less than the other shower, nevertheless I despise him. We need to wake up and see what has happened in Britain. There may be as a Umbongo says 2 million muslims to 58 million non muslims but what about the demographic. How many are under 30 as a percentage? We have an elephant in the room and no one dares to comment about it. Cameron is very much in the Heath mold. Another misguided chump!

Geoff Gilson said...

I'm not so sure that David Cameron is "chiming with the British people," as he is falling into step with his predecessors, all of whom are now driven by an arms industry, which affects the employment of 1 in every 5 people in the UK.

See: and my new book "Dead Men Don't Eat Lunch," which is the chronicle of Thatcher's arms dealer and assassin, and shows that Cameron has aready appointed the team who will revive the whole sorry spectre of Tory Arms Corruption.

Anonymous said...

Verity I know this

Not voting conservative will result in 5 more years of a socialist government.

I STILL LIVE HERE and have a young wife and kidds, so I still HAVE to care.

I also know that if I left this country I really would not give a sod what nasty things happen to Britain as a whole. Other then to teach the people back home a lesson for driving me out of the place.

Protest voting in a British general election is counterproductive. Also a indulgence people that still live here can not and WILL NOT make.

Anonymous said...

Hmm well no, Gary. We care what happens to the place, and whatever English relatives I had left there a century or more ago.

A place which can produce a Churchill, a CS Lewis, even a Christopher Hitchens, and countless other unique people, ideas and things, is surely of exceptional value to the rest of the world.

Anonymous said...

Um, Verity....

Have you yourself in fact read anything about Islam? If you had you might in fact be aware that Jihad is supposed to be an internal struggle with oneself, in the face of god. It is the taking of this concept and translating it into a justification for holy war that is a misreading of Islam.

So, sorry to have to break it to you, but in this instance, Mr Cameron would appear to know somewhat more on the subject than yourself.

Anonymous said...

"someone who announces on the internet that he has millions of pounds invested in Britain"

For the record, my "£ms" was a typo. I meant to write £s.