tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post4303890948906503919..comments2024-03-27T21:30:35.824+00:00Comments on UK Commentators: BNP BrouhahaLabanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12031578024191117985noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-32168745282109850812008-01-01T15:33:00.000+00:002008-01-01T15:33:00.000+00:00It's worth reading Nick Griffin's New Year message...It's worth reading Nick Griffin's New Year message for his take on the whole thing.<BR/><BR/>http://www.bnp.org.uk/?p=389<BR/><BR/>Laban, thanks for a year of excellent posts and a very happy New Year to you and your family.Harry Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08299538663895557942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-11865323998123778222007-12-25T09:57:00.000+00:002007-12-25T09:57:00.000+00:00LabanIgnore my last comment. I found what I was l...Laban<BR/><BR/>Ignore my last comment. I found what I was looking for.<BR/><BR/>Have a good ChristmasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-83343148171533289672007-12-24T19:05:00.000+00:002007-12-24T19:05:00.000+00:00LabanI know this is off topic, but why has the ent...Laban<BR/><BR/>I know this is off topic, but why has the entry for 30/10/2005 regarding a report in the Observer about the riots in Birmingham in 2005 disappeared from your blog:<BR/><BR/>If you google the following:<BR/>“Labour chose to bury mounting concern"<BR/><BR/>You will find google has the link but it seems to have disappeared.<BR/><BR/>Why?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-69406875306083081332007-12-24T17:28:00.000+00:002007-12-24T17:28:00.000+00:00Lee Barnes has an illuminating set of articles fro...Lee Barnes has an illuminating set of articles from the Daily Express, Independent etc: <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://leejohnbarnes.blogspot.com/2007/12/mi5-admit-plan-to-infiltrate-and.html" REL="nofollow"> MI5 admit plan to infiltrate and destroy the BNP </A><BR/><BR/>Note: Though this particular post does not contain foul language, some others do, especially in the comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-34706702403816236352007-12-24T15:13:00.000+00:002007-12-24T15:13:00.000+00:00"Leaving aside the tedious denial of the industria..."Leaving aside the tedious denial of the industrial-scale extermination of Jews et al, was WW2 really just "a pointless war with other whites standing up for their race"? Of course not: it was a struggle for national survival. The Nazis were not "standing up for their race": they aimed to impose a impose a totalitarian regime on the whole of Europe."<BR/><BR/>On the contrary, what is tedious is this bizarre assumption that an ethnic conflict* of 60 years' vintage somehow Has A Lot To Tell Us. And, indeed, that the leader of one of the factions in said conflict is The Worst Dictator Ever, as oppossed to to a fairly common or garden totalitarian mass murderer (such as Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Lenin and co., Napoleon, Sherman, Mugabe, the Rwandan lot, etc, etc, etc ad infinitum).<BR/><BR/>Let me come clean and say that I regard WW2 as a mistake: more specifically, I regard making war to liberate Eastern Europe and maintain the Continental balance of power [i]on the side of Stalin[/i] as quasi-delusional. I also, alongside the entirety of the historical profession, am fully aware that the UK declared war on Germany, not vice versa, giving the lie to your claims about national survival.<BR/><BR/>Fundamentally, however, I do not regard such questions as any more relevant to modern UK politics than, say the Spanish Armada or the Suez Crisis. Germany was thoroughly de-Nazified, and Nazism was never a popular belief in the UK, even on the nationalist right.<BR/><BR/>Apparently, however, what matters the most isn't the here and now, but rather the BNP's opinions on strictly historical questions. For some people, it is always 1939, and there is always another Hitler on the prowl. <BR/><BR/>*Just how much it was an ethnic conflict, little different to what took place more recently in Rwanda, can be gathered from perusing the highly popular (amongst Jews, esp.) 1920s book, entitled "Germany Must Be Destroyed". One might also look at the preponderance of German Jewish suppport for the Soviet-loving German Communist Party, a party which looked with approval upon the Jew-organised mass murder of Ukrainians known as the Holodomor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-20077722552009451962007-12-23T22:31:00.000+00:002007-12-23T22:31:00.000+00:00I know we've been betrayed by our political and in...I know we've been betrayed by our political and intellectual class, but I don't think that happens without, on some level, the consent of the people.<BR/><BR/>If this was a happy, content, fecund, stable, ordered and coherent society, there would be no room or need for immigration on the scale we've seen.<BR/><BR/>The state HAS been the enemy of the people, never more so than in the last ten years, but WE voted for them.<BR/><BR/>Blaming Thatcher is absurd BTW. Completely absurd. What were we to do, carry on as before?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-68330912436039434242007-12-23T22:13:00.000+00:002007-12-23T22:13:00.000+00:00Very good article Bert. I enjoyed reading it. It g...Very good article Bert. I enjoyed reading it. It goes a long way towards refuting Hugh Oxford's contention that 'we' have bought it all on ourselves.Harry Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08299538663895557942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-67688891258744949642007-12-23T19:44:00.000+00:002007-12-23T19:44:00.000+00:00LabanYou made a comment about "making/breaking of ...Laban<BR/><BR/>You made a comment about "making/breaking of the working class" recently.<BR/><BR/>You may find this article relevant:<BR/><BR/> "The white working-class and the British elite: from the salt of the earth to the scum of the earth"<BR/><BR/>http://www.thirdway.org<BR/>/files/articles/wwc.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-32903431835268519322007-12-23T00:15:00.000+00:002007-12-23T00:15:00.000+00:00It seems to me that folk don't need to join the BN...It seems to me that folk don't need to join the BNP, or contribute, but they are voting for the BNP in ever increasing numbers. In particular, there is a good electoral response to local BNP candidates, who seem to have built up a track record of working on behalf of constituents of all racial groups.<BR/>The other aspect is the British are so sick of being branded racists by every "activist" with an axe to grind, there is no longer any great groundswell of support for anti-racism. In fact, there is a growing perception that there is a whole racial grievance industry out there, and the race hustlers have a vested interest in keeping the cauldron on the boil. And the more trouble they can "identify", the more public funding they get.<BR/>Whatever happens to the BNP, the nationalist resurgence will not go away any time soon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-18184324595891311432007-12-22T10:46:00.000+00:002007-12-22T10:46:00.000+00:00Well that is true, that is true. While we can say ...Well that is true, that is true. While we can say it was the government playing on our weaknesses, and claim mitigating factors such as extremely clever propaganda techniques, the nub of it all is as you say. Enoch was right - I just wish he had stood in his own right, then things may have been different.<BR/><BR/>I see something of Enoch in Ron Paul. I think Ron Paul is the wests best shot at the moment. He will leave Europe to its own mire and insulate America, reverting it back to tiny government and the founding constitution.ba bahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14178542110930629126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-44535249201594065142007-12-22T09:44:00.000+00:002007-12-22T09:44:00.000+00:00This country started dying forty years ago. The co...This country started dying forty years ago. The contraceptive/abortive culture, the welfare state, the withering of Christianity, moral relativism.<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying the state hasn't been complicit in that (my MP refuses to defend marriage, the family and human life), but it's come organically from the people, at the end of the day. It's what we "chose", through our moral action and inaction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-69801061308080232432007-12-22T07:35:00.000+00:002007-12-22T07:35:00.000+00:00Hugh, people react to what they see, and the TV is...Hugh, people react to what they see, and the TV is a very selective mirror. You can bet that if the government wanted our population to replace itself or grow, it would.ba bahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14178542110930629126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-74914823937560759612007-12-22T05:08:00.000+00:002007-12-22T05:08:00.000+00:00Just curious, why the eccentric moniker for MR?Just curious, why the eccentric moniker for MR?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-4994046852975621042007-12-21T23:52:00.000+00:002007-12-21T23:52:00.000+00:00The problem I have with the BNP is that, well, I'm...The problem I have with the BNP is that, well, I'm not racist. On so many issues they are correct, on immigration, on big business, on society, on crime, on agriculture, on Europe. I struggle to fault them. But I will not surrender the view that people are to be judged on the content of their character, and that does seem to be an issue with the BNP.<BR/><BR/>Another problem with the BNP I have is that we <B>have to look at our internal problems</B> before we start blaming others. Britain is dying, with an indigenous fertility rate of 1.6 children per woman, that's a population that will be halved in two generations. <BR/><BR/>That's a gap that WILL be filled, because it is concomitant with an increased demand for labour as the population ages. Civilisations die, they are not killed. If this is not Britain in any meaningful sense in 30 years, it will not be the fault of immigrants. We need to look at ourselves, at our families, our society, our culture, our identity, our religion before looking out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-41563327893662234342007-12-21T23:13:00.000+00:002007-12-21T23:13:00.000+00:00Laban.You made a fleeting reference to individuals...Laban.<BR/>You made a fleeting reference to individuals having a hold on Griffin.<BR/>This seems rather implausible as individuals tend to tell other individuals and so on up the line till it then becomes common knowledge (after a few pints), and leaked out all over the place.<BR/>If there WAS a skeleton it would be out by now. <BR/><BR/>Recovering Liberal. (awful lot of 'recovering' people these days?)<BR/>You say the Brits just have not suffered enough yet, to get them going. How true, and is what I've been saying for years, and the only way this suffering will take form is when spending money starts to dry up. And it will; iether by interest rates having to go up or inflation taking off. If that happens even the 'lowly jobs' will be worth having again, with all that implies......bernardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04362820080676686546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-61679395768658214092007-12-21T21:30:00.000+00:002007-12-21T21:30:00.000+00:00Well Paul Ilc do you not think that there is a str...Well Paul Ilc do you not think that there is a struggle for national survival now? <BR/>the invaders do not wear uniforms but they have elbowed the locals out.<BR/>As for totalitarian - all those CCTV cameras must give a whiff of this.malpashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03465468581504191466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-84881661214436199372007-12-21T20:40:00.000+00:002007-12-21T20:40:00.000+00:00Wouldn't you prefer to find out for yourself by th...<I>Wouldn't you prefer to find out for yourself by the BNP being given time and space in the MSM?</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, guardian apostate, I would. I think that would be very healthy.paul ilchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02971581388762736463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-85302262139078002902007-12-21T20:23:00.000+00:002007-12-21T20:23:00.000+00:00elftopaul ilc, you're right about both statements....elfto<BR/>paul ilc, you're right about both statements. Neither are defensible or stand up to scrutiny. I can't begin to fathom the rationale behind Mark Collets statement. As I said in my previous post Nick Griffin has since qualified his earlier position. It's also worth remembering the BNP's pro-Israel stance in last years stand off with Hezbollah in Lebanon. Maybe it's not just a tactic, maybe it's genuine. Wouldn't you prefer to find out for yourself by the BNP being given time and space in the MSM?Harry Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08299538663895557942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-12849740441665497192007-12-21T18:29:00.000+00:002007-12-21T18:29:00.000+00:00againstthewall:Neither position is remotely defens...againstthewall:<BR/><BR/>Neither position is remotely defensible for any rational and reasonably well-informed person...<BR/><BR/>Leaving aside the tedious denial of the industrial-scale extermination of Jews et al, was WW2 really just "a pointless war with other whites standing up for their race"? Of course not: it was a struggle for national survival. The Nazis were not "standing up for their race": they aimed to impose a impose a totalitarian regime on the whole of Europe.paul ilchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02971581388762736463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-3662756111027516732007-12-21T15:37:00.000+00:002007-12-21T15:37:00.000+00:00Does anyone know if there are any... actual... you...Does anyone know if there are any... actual... you know...policy differences between the two factions or is this just a personality dispute between the disloyal faction and the totalitarian faction?<BR/>The ANC has just gone through a tumultuous change in leadership. Perhaps the BNP could look there to see how to conduct grown-up politics! In my view the British have just not suffered enough yet to create the kind of cohesive spirit that a Nationalist party needs. I mean if the die-hard activists can't put aside their personal differences what chance is there of the rest of the population getting serious?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-32122469611778706782007-12-21T15:13:00.000+00:002007-12-21T15:13:00.000+00:00"Mark Collett is on the record as stating: “Church..."Mark Collett is on the record as stating: “Churchill was a f****** c*** who led us into a pointless war with other whites standing up for their race.”<BR/><BR/>Griffin has said of the Holocaust: “The ‘extermination’ tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie and latter-day witch-hysteria”."<BR/><BR/>Apart from the bad language these seem defensible positions to me but hardly relevant to modern British politics. That stuff like this is brought up routinely is done purely to try to portray the BNP as something they are not.<BR/><BR/>btw guardian apostate that was a very good post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-87986613421513357542007-12-21T14:46:00.000+00:002007-12-21T14:46:00.000+00:00As on the extreme left, so on the extreme right: s...As on the extreme left, so on the extreme right: small groups of fanatics tend to be fissiparous and fissile.<BR/><BR/>Mark Collett is on the record as stating: “Churchill was a f****** c*** who led us into a pointless war with other whites standing up for their race.” <BR/><BR/>Griffin has said of the Holocaust: “The ‘extermination’ tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie and latter-day witch-hysteria”.<BR/><BR/>Whatever they now claim they believe, I doubt they have fully repudiated those statements, any more than Sinn Fein has genuinely repudiated violence. Any repudiation is likely to be a tactic - to help the BNP attract the sort of members and voters that Laban identifies.<BR/><BR/>guardian apostate: 'The Great Deception' is an excellent book, which deserves to be more widely read.<BR/><BR/>Laban: Perhaps it is coincidence, but your posts have become even more incisive and compelling since you introduced your 'occasional comments' policy. Stick with it!paul ilchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02971581388762736463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-58607691537942339032007-12-21T08:52:00.000+00:002007-12-21T08:52:00.000+00:00Eddie WillersI note that you buy into the Cable St...Eddie Willers<BR/><BR/>I note that you buy into the Cable Street mythology. Oliver Kamm (no right winger) gives a better account <A HREF="http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2006/10/cable_street.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>.<BR/><BR/>Mosley had a brief period of high profile and support from the Mail, but the event that destroyed him was the scenes at the Olympia rally. Afterwards he lost <A HREF="http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/features/century/cbf.php?include=page3" REL="nofollow">Rothermere</A>.<BR/><BR/>Nevertheless your basic point is right - the black shirts were seen as a foreign influence, which kinda contradicts the nationalist ethos.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-33973706129546313102007-12-21T08:18:00.000+00:002007-12-21T08:18:00.000+00:00"even Adolf ?"I was hoping that we could avoid usi..."even Adolf ?"<BR/><BR/>I was hoping that we could avoid using him as any kind of role model.<BR/><BR/>apostate - good point about Collet. I forgot he was Griffin's co-defendant in the trial a year or so back.<BR/>You can see why some loyalty would be there ...Labanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12031578024191117985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5187043.post-91870069913749460832007-12-21T06:06:00.000+00:002007-12-21T06:06:00.000+00:00I think you have hit a nail on its head quite firm...I think you have hit a nail on its head quite firmly with the comment regarding the BNP needing to be 'less jackbooty' in order to gain a popular (or populist) vote.<BR/><BR/>In similar vein, George Orwell, in his asessment of the English character, thought that the 'coloured shirt' version of fascism would never catch on here (after all, Moseley and his shirts didn't amount to much after the Cable Street debacle).<BR/><BR/>However, a close examination must be made of the state of political interest in the native class. If there's a widespread belief that voting changes nothing (and, god knows, voter turnout is execrably low) then how is any 'saviour' going to rouse the rabble in to voting for them? Even Adolf only just squeaked in on a democratic vote and needed the farce of an Enabling Act to consolidate power.'Eddie Willers'https://www.blogger.com/profile/17155049952165272430noreply@blogger.com